National racing count (from the Production Car forum)

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National racing count (from the Production Car forum)

Postby jigou » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:38 pm

<removed by jigou>
Last edited by jigou on Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby RonInSD » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:40 pm

Looking at the 2010 MiDiv Schedule
R N IT - GIR
R N IT - HMRC
R R - MAM
R N IT - HPT
R R - GIR
R N IT - MAM
R N IT - HPT
R N IT - HMRC
R N IT - GIR
R N IT - MAM
R R - MPH

Totals
14 Regional Only (3 Double Regional Weekends)
8 National Only (0 Double National Weekends)
8 IT Tour Run Groups on National Days

Remember that GIR is not an option in 2011 so that will remove:
4 Regional Only (1 Double Regional Weekends)
2 National Only (0 Double National Weekends)
2 IT Tour Run Groups on National Days

I still need to look at the other divisions for the break downs of races.

MiDiv should be looking at doing a double Rational weekend like other division are doing this year to replace the lost races at GIR and to add a double race for national drivers. It appears that National races are having to do additional amount of towing due to the lack of double national weekends.

Jarrod is their a break down of the licensed drivers based on regional/national license for each of the divisions?
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Postby spitfire4gp » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:16 pm

Yes, I can access the breakdown. For MiDiv as of today it is:
237 National licenses
66 Regional licenses
41 Novice permits
3 Vintage licenses
-----
347 total

Keep in mind, 237 National licenses does not necessarily mean 237 "national drivers" since most drivers when they qualify by doing enough Regionals will get their National ticket and still just drive regionals -- IT drivers a prime example.
Last edited by spitfire4gp on Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby spitfire4gp » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:17 pm

(Tried to delete duplicate post -- forum wouldn't let me -- under "Edit/delete" there was no Delete option)
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Postby tnord » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:27 am

if 2011 schedule is about the same as 2010.....

one of the three double regional weekends is the S/S/R/R. can't really fit a full national schedule into the school weekends, and including the R/R is making the best of the situation.

i bet another of the R/R is the bonus race at MPH, which by default makes me not interested in trying to win the MidAm at all. i think this could be changed, but our entire regional/division championship system needs an overhaul before that can really happen. unless they want to put the bonus race on top of the R/N weekend at MAM in Aug. that's probably what i'd do as a short term solution to a bigger problem.

the other R/R at GIR is gone....so that's good.

if i were scheduling king, i would limit the number of events to 7

300 drivers * average season of 3 weekends = 900
900 / 125 (desired car count at each event) = 7.2

each weekend would be a N/N, and each would include IT. we would eliminate the IT Tour series and all regional races would count towards Mid-Am.

all regions would submit unsigned contracts with their desired track to me, and I would decide who holds what events. if MAM has a great contract offer, and Ray Irwin wants to charge us $50,000.

we've got 4 tracks to work with now right? MAM, Hastings, HPT, and Hallett? if we had 7 events to divide up, and HPT's contract sucks, it might go something like this...

2 events at MAM
2 events at Hallett
2 events at Hastings
1 event at HPT

....or something of the sort. the regions need to work together on the schedule and make sure we don't put each other in a financial bind. we're all a part of the same club. problem is there's nobody overseeing all of this. each region is operating as their own rogue entity.
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Postby tnord » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:23 pm

here's some data to chew on;

http://www.scca.com/documents/Club_Even ... _FINAL.pdf

MiDiv
518 national entries / 8 Nationals = 65

Northeast
1272 / 8 = 159

southeast
1565 / 9 = 173

SoPac
437 / 4 = 109

GL
752 / 6 = 125

http://www.scca.com/documents/Club_Even ... CTOBER.pdf

MiDiv
963 / 22 = 44

NE
5230 / 42 = 125

SE
5208 / 59 = 88

SoPac
1110 / 22 = 50


and some of you want to add MORE races to the schedule?!?!?!?!?
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Postby RonInSD » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:21 pm

tnord wrote:MiDiv
963 / 22 = 44

Here is the correct way it should be shown.

MiDiv 963 Total regional entries
380 are IT classes so 380/22 (14 Regional dates plus 8 IT tour dates) = 17
583 other classes so 583/14 (14 Regional dates) = 42

I know other divisions run IT Tour type groups on National days also so that is going to throw their numbers off too.

tnord wrote:and some of you want to add MORE races to the schedule?!?!?!?!?

Remember as we both have said GIR is off the plate for 2011 so some dates will not be back.

I think what national racers are looking for is a double national weekend.

Right now for IT every weekend is a double weekend but in MiDiv not one weekend is a double weekend. This add additional tow miles and vacation days for national drivers. Some if not most are going out of division so they can do a double weekend to reduce their travel costs.

Lets face it if your goal is to be MidAm champion you have to run a lot of races to take points away from other competitors. It is not just run my 7 races and I'm done. Maybe the MidAm championship points plan should be adjusted based on the number of cars entered in the class like the SCCA national points championship system does. It gives bonus points for more cars entered.

If race groups/regions are breaking even on the races and see a need for more races why not add more races? Their job is to provide racers with races. If you limit the number of races you also limit the people who can attend due to personal/job scheduling issues. Yes more races also puts a demand on the volunteer staff so their has to be a balance.
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Postby RonInSD » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:46 pm

Dup Posting
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Postby tnord » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:03 pm

i don't believe the SCCA counts IT tour towards national entries.

and i don't disagree at all that we should have double national weekends. EVERY weekend should be a double national if you ask me.

Lets face it if your goal is to be MidAm champion you have to run a lot of races to take points away from other competitors. It is not just run my 7 races and I'm done. Maybe the MidAm championship points plan should be adjusted based on the number of cars entered in the class like the SCCA national points championship system does. It gives bonus points for more cars entered.


how about we fix the problem of crappy car counts instead of rewriting the rules? one of the biggest problems (too many classes nobody asked for) we can't do anything about. too many events/poor car counts is something we can influence, and hurts the club in a number of different ways; not just what can be circumvented with a clever track rental contract.

breaking even is only step 1, and even i'm not convinced we're past that hurdle just yet at all. and if we're breaking even, that means we're barely scraping by....i can't possibly see how you can argue that adding more events will create more entries per event? how healthy is it as an alleged racing program to NEVER see the guy you might be "competing" with for a divisional championship until the bonus race? i hated GIR as a track, but if i didn't have 6 different options to run MAM/HPT nearby, you better believe i'd tow over there to go race.....if there were more than a couple other in-class entries.

do we even know what % of our drivers attended all 8 nationals last year? how about 6? does neb region know how many races it's own member drivers attended? is adding races at MPH making the pie bigger for everyone to share, or is it just slicing the pie up smaller and stealing entries from other events?

and lets not kid ourselves, winning the midam championship is little more than an attendance contest. what % of licensed divisional drivers scored in 6 or more MidAm races? i'd bet ya it's 10% or less. that's terrible.

we have got to stop thinking about our little pond only, and start thinking about how our actions affect the other SCCA regions around us. we're all part of the same club and should be working together rather than as our own rogue little entities.
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